Baker Shotguns Serial Numbers
Several different guns owe part of their designs to Frank A. Hollenbeck - Baker, Syracuse Arms Co., Baltimore Arms Co., Hollenbeck Gun Co., Royal Gun Co., and The Three Barrel Gun Co. Frank had earlier worked with Baker in Lisle, NY, and later with Baker and L.C. Smith in Syracuse.
During the period of 1915-1919, Baker Gun and Forging Co. Was doing a lot of work on forged auto parts and much less work on guns. Baker 'normally' had their different gun models in blocks of serial numbers for each gun model, but during this period they had many models in the same block of serial numbers, from roughly the high 30,000 range through 51,000 or so. In that range one could find single barrel trap guns, Leaders, Paragons, Black Beauty, and a couple of others. I might guess your Leader would have a cocking mechanism different than most Bakers. I might also guess your gun has steel barrels rather than the earlier twist barrels for the Leader.
These Leaders were well finished, compared to the Folsom offerings. The name 'Baker Gun Company' can be found on the majority of models by Baker Gun and Forging Co. From the late 1890s through to the end in 1919.
That term seems to be the preferred one for them. To the best of my knowledge the company was never incorporated. Edited by Daryl Hallquist ( 11/01/15 09:22 AM). Drew, those are good pictures. Firstly, I have never seen a Folsom made gun with Damascus or twist barrels.
Interesting to me and about 5 guys in the world Secondly, your observance of the firing pin retaining screw is accurate. The interior edge of the sideplate retained the firing pin in the Model Nineteen Nine the L Trap Grade you show. All other L Trap Grades I have seen had the typical Baker Gun and Forging Co. Firing pin retaining screw. The Batavia Leader in the 50,000 range that originated this post would also retain the firing pin with the inside of the lock plate.
I would guess that it looks like this one from my group. Edited by Daryl Hallquist ( 11/01/15 07:09 PM).
Sort of a Hi-Jack here I suppose. Recently I was shown an old 12 ga hammer double by a former co-worker & still friend.
Turned out to be a 'New Baker' made by Syracuse Forging & Gun Co, SN 2473. It carried two patent dates on the Watertable, June 1, 1880 & Oct 4, 1887.
The first of these would appear to be #228,165 issued to W H Baker for the forend fastener (J Spring) & the second to A C Mcfarland for the Rebounding Locks (trigger plate action). 30' twist barrels & while I didn't weigh it I would guess a solid 8lbs or more. Not high condition but shootable with appropriate loads.
Baker Shotgun Serial Numbers
Pretty weight forward & a lot of drop to the stock though. Fairly plain wood with checkering mostly worn smooth, but appears to have been originally a nice pattern, nothing real fancy. I do not know if these were offered in different grades or not but this one would have been a basic field grade if so. 2-piper, the New Baker you saw, if it was marked Syracuse Forging and Gun Company, Syracuse, was made before the factory fire in 1889.
After the move of the company to Batavia in 1890 a few guns were marked Syracuse Forging and Gun Co., Batavia. The company name was soon changed to Baker Gun and Forging Co. Catalogs and ads I have seen show the New Baker in one grade. But, I have seen a few with some engraving and receiver sculpturing and Damascus rather than twist barrels. Edited by Daryl Hallquist ( 12/05/15 10:48 AM). Updated every minute of everyday! Copyright (c) 1993 - 2017 doublegunshop.com.
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I'm looking for any info I could get on a Baker Damascus Double Barrel w/ Serial #8XX. The gentleman I acquired it from had a paper in case stating it was a 'Baker Gold Medallion' but I haven't been able to find any info by doing searches. I'm an extreme newbie when it comes to knowledge but the shotgun looks to me to be in really nice condition with no scratches or dings on the stock, forearm or metal.
The engravings are strong and don't show any wear. I would really appreciate any info/opinions people can offer. My reference 'The Breech Loading Shotgun In America, 1860 to 1940' list three makers named Baker, two American and one English. Of course an English made gun will have English proof marks on the bottom of the barrels. The makers are: W.H. Baker & Co who was located at 20 Walton Street Syracuse,NY from 1878 to 1880; Baker Gun & Forging Company who operated as Syracuse Forging & Gun Co from 1878 to 1890 and Baker Gun & Forging from 1890 to 1919. The English maker was named Fredrick Thomas Baker was located at various addresses in London England from 1858 to 1898 and later.
In the reference, there is a section marked OBSERVED SPECIMENS OF BAKER SHOTGUNS and couple have the markings BAKER GUN CO but on the frame only, There is mention of a model number (MODEL 1897) and the serial number marked on the trigger guard on one hammer double. What Baker guns does that serial number list apply to?
Baker was making his trigger-break hammer double and three-barrel guns in Lisle, New York, in 1876 and then Syracuse, New York, by 1877, as W.H. By 1879 the magazine ads show L.C. Smith as being the dominant partner as L.C. Smith maker of Baker Pat'd Gun.
Meanwhile William H. Baker leaves and forms another gun company with some other members of the Smith family and the Livermores down in Ithaca, New York, using water power from Fall Creek, and making a new Baker designed hammer gun with a conventional top-lever - Ithaca Gun Co. Meanwhile, William H. Baker's brother Dr. Ellis Baker has a company up in Syracuse called the Syracuse Forging and Gun Co. Making an A.C. McFarland patented trigger-plate action hammer gun called the 'New Baker' and by 1887 W.H.
Baker is back in Syracuse as plant superintendant for his brother. In 1888 Syracuse Forging and Gun Co. Burns and they decide to relocate to Batavia, New York. By this time W.H. Baker is ill with TB and Ellis brings in Frank A.
Hollenbeck to be plant superintendant. The companies name is soon changed to Baker Gun and Forging Co. And the 'New Baker' is changed from being underbolted to being bolted by a wedge thru a rib extension. Hollenbeck is granted three double gun patents while he is in Batavia and two are assigned to the Baker Gun & Forging Co. I have now seen an early B-Grade with these three patent dates, but most hammerless Bakers I’ve looked at don’t have any patent dates on them.
Even though the company's name on their catalogues and letterheads is Baker Gun & Forging Co., the hammerless guns are most always marked Baker Gun Co. By 1893 Hollenbeck leaves to form his Syracuse Arms Co. Baker Gun & Forging Co. Continues on through several management shakeups building both their graded hammerless guns with the hammer-block safety and their lower priced Batavia line without. These guns are offered in 10-, 12-, and 16-gauge. By 1919 Baker dumps the gun part of the business on one of the biggest importers and manufacturers of low-priced guns, H&D Folsom of New York City with their factory in Norwich, Conn.
H&D Folsom add 20-gauges to the Baker line and continue to offer Baker guns up to at least 1929. In early 1930 H&D Folsom sell their lower-priced Crescent Fire Arms Co. Gun business to Savage-Stevens, and Baker seems to just disappear.
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Savage-Stevens combined Crescent with their recently acquired Davis-Warner Gun Co. As Crescent-Davis and continue to make guns in Norwich thru the first half of the 1930s. The gun pictured at the start of this thread is a Paragon Grade. According to the article on Baker Guns in the Guns Illustrated 1997 by Hallquist & Hardin, the Paragon was added to the line in 1894, and serial numbers were from 1 to 1200. It seems each series of Baker hammerless doubles had their own serial number blocks - The Paragons and higher one block, A & B grades another block, R & S grades in another block, Black Beauty and Black Beauty Special in another block.